Подскажите как быть?

[Milasha]

BTW, have you not ever seen smart middle-class kids that went to a CC just to save money? Here at FSU, a big chunk of undergraduate student body falls into that category.

Эммм... простите за оффтоп, но программа Bright Futures дает полную оплату tuition and fees в любом флоридском public университете (FSU тоже, естественно). Eligibility requirements - всего-то навсего 3.5 gpa и 1270 SAT (что для smart middle-class kids - нетрудно) http://www.firn.edu/doe/bin00072/fasrequire.htm

Почему, собственно, вышеуказанные smart middle-class kids решили пренебречь этой возможностью и вместо этого платить за комьюнити колледж?

Часть, естественно, с ГПА 3.4 . Другие не смогли поступить на желаемую специальность в FSU (на Bright Futures требования ниже, чем в FSU. Парадокс...). Кому-то нужен гибкий график. Kto-to does not qualify as in-state for tuition purposes. Кто-то - упомянутые выше high school kids on dual enrollment. Кому-то нравятся smaller classes.

[NEVA]

True, true. But why work in an environment where this classist snob mindset is tolerated? And, frankly, how often you think this happens?

It usually happens in the most selective and prestigious institutions. That's exactly the reason you'd want to work there. Such mindset is not merely tolerated, it is cultivated there.

Yikes!
Просто для баланса: в стране более 2000 community colleges. Сколько Ваших престижных?

I wasn't talking about colleges. I was talking about employers.

Colin Powell был трансфером.

А Ломоносов был из деревни. Ну и что?

[Milasha]

I wasn't talking about colleges. I was talking about employers.

Colleges ARE employers. Being a graduate of a "similar institution" is a definite plus for hiring, on any level.

[Primavera]

This is an off top, but why you are so mad with Neva? There are lots of institutions that are that selective. It's not her fault. You can scream whatever you want but you wouldn't get in some places without being an graduate from top 10 schools.

Some employers set the standards, even if it is illegal. On my friend's office the management wanted a professional Not from state/city university, only from private school. The recruiter said that it is illegal to make that selection. Well, they interviewed all of candidates and picked one from private school. This is a reality.

[Milasha]

This is an off top, but why you are so mad with Neva? There are lots of institutions that are that selective. It's not her fault. You can scream whatever you want but you wouldn't get in some places without being an graduate from top 10 schools.

I'm not "mad" with Neva. I'm just trying to show that her point of view is NOT the only one. We don't even disagree on facts much.
(BTW, there can't be "lots" of such institutions, simply by definition. Top 10 schools are much less than 1% of all institutions, again, by definition. There's not enough high-class graduates for "lots" of places)

Some employers set the standards, even if it is illegal. On my friend's office the management wanted a professional Not from state/city university, only from private school. The recruiter said that it is illegal to make that selection. Well, they interviewed all of candidates and picked one from private school. This is a reality.

Well duh. So what? Is it the only office/employer in the region? Isn't this high-income, high stress environment a cause for divorce, depression, suicide (for some; others may thrive there)?

[NEVA]

Being a graduate of a "similar institution" is a definite plus for hiring, on any level.

That's exactly what I was talking about the whole time. I'm so glad you understand.

[NEVA]

We don't even disagree on facts much.

We don't disagree. We are just talking about two entirely different things. I assert that studying at a community college can prevent you from obtaining certain types of jobs with certain types of employers. You, on the other hand, point out that most employers will still be open to such people. And you are entirely correct. But that doesn't change my assertion one bit - these are two different subsets of employers. So I repeat -

By going to community college you could potentially preclude yourself from obtaining certain types of jobs with certain employers in the future. You will still, in all likelihood, be perfectly employable elsewhere, just not with the companies I've mentioned. Now, the question really is: Are you willing to possibly sacrifice this subset of potential employers in exchange for the savings that community college has to offer?
That's really the choice here and that's what I was trying to convey to the author of the topic.

[Milasha]

By going to community college you could potentially preclude yourself from obtaining certain types of jobs with certain employers in the future. You will still, in all likelihood, be perfectly employable elsewhere, just not with the companies I've mentioned.

Couldn't say it better myself

Now, the question really is: Are you willing to possibly sacrifice this subset of potential employers in exchange for the savings that community college has to offer?
That's really the choice here and that's what I was trying to convey to the author of the topic.

You are right. Small subset, I would add. And not nesessarily all that desirable.
In my case, I chose to go distance learning route, a move that would certainly limit my access to the type of employers you are talking about (and then some). You can't move forward by trying to foresee all possible biases your interviewer might have, be it racial, social or any other. I am certain that my regionally accredited CPA-qualifying DL degree will open more doors for me than it will close. Same is true about CCs, arguably the best and most socially responsible segment of American education.

[Milasha]

Being a graduate of a "similar institution" is a definite plus for hiring, on any level.

That's exactly what I was talking about the whole time. I'm so glad you understand.

Community colleges are not that inferior as an employment choice. Just DIFFERENT.

[NEVA]

You are right. Small subset, I would add. And not nesessarily all that desirable.

To whom how. (c) unknown.

In my case, I chose to go distance learning route, a move that would certainly limit my access to the type of employers you are talking about (and then some). You can't move forward by trying to foresee all possible biases your interviewer might have, be it racial, social or any other.

I disagree. I think that any plan, be it financial, educational, or any other, should try to forsee, factor in, and preferably avoid, as many potential problems/biases/etc. as possible. That's the whole point of planning, in my opinion.

I am certain that my regionally accredited CPA-qualifying DL degree will open more doors for me than it will close.

I sincerely hope so.

[DanielMa]

Milasha and NEVA are just missing each other's points.

NEVA is saying that there are employers that care very much about educational credentials of their employees. Perhaps less than 5% of the population works for such employers. But these employers are some of the biggest names in the economy and working for them is not only financially rewarding but also carries immense prestige and gives you a lot other opportunities later on in life. For NEVA, the goal should be to work in one of those places.

Milasha just wants to get a job that pays. For her purposes, the prestige of the employer is not that important. Community Colleges are perfect for Milasha.

[Milasha]

Milasha and NEVA are just missing each other's points.

NEVA is saying that there are employers that care very much about educational credentials of their employees. Perhaps less than 5% of the population works for such employers. But these employers are some of the biggest names in the economy and working for them is not only financially rewarding but also carries immense prestige and gives you a lot other opportunities later on in life. For NEVA, the goal should be to work in one of those places.

Yes.

Milasha just wants to get a job that pays. For her purposes, the prestige of the employer is not that important. Community Colleges are perfect for Milasha.

Working for such places can also be very rewarding, can it not? Besides, suppose someone wants to become a CC president (or a CC system chansellor). Those are definitely high prestige and selective positions.
P.S. I do think that "the prestige of the employer is not that important", just like the kind of car you drive is not that important.

[Primavera]

I am certain that my regionally accredited CPA-qualifying DL degree will open more doors for me than it will close.

I wish you luck. Friend of mine got an MBA (not online) and still could find a decent job in Florida. You could find a job in a small firm but they have to sponsor you for the license. In the regular school you pay not only for education but also for future job placement because some companies hire people without experience only at sertain campuses.

Daniel, I agree with you 100%. Also those employers are located in big cities, that is why there are lots of those companies if you live there.

[Milasha]

You are right. Small subset, I would add. And not nesessarily all that desirable.

To whom how. (c) unknown.

For whom how.

In my case, I chose to go distance learning route, a move that would certainly limit my access to the type of employers you are talking about (and then some). You can't move forward by trying to foresee all possible biases your interviewer might have, be it racial, social or any other.

I disagree. I think that any plan, be it financial, educational, or any other, should try to forsee, factor in, and preferably avoid, as many potential problems/biases/etc. as possible. That's the whole point of planning, in my opinion.

You don't control the other people's irrational, do you? Suppose the next interviewer for a very lucrative position rejects you because he (thinks that he) got ripped off by your former employer or was rejected by Harvard and thus dislikes Top-10 graduates. Then what?
Besides, you pay for any choices you make, be it in money, time, health, personal time...

I am certain that my regionally accredited CPA-qualifying DL degree will open more doors for me than it will close.

I sincerely hope so.

Thank you.

[Milasha]

I am certain that my regionally accredited CPA-qualifying DL degree will open more doors for me than it will close.

I wish you luck. Friend of mine got an MBA (not online) and still could find a decent job in Florida. You could find a job in a small firm but they have to sponsor you for the license. In the regular school you pay not only for education but also for future job placement because some companies hire people without experience only at sertain campuses.

I know that. Was not an option for boring financial reasons.

PS You can well sponsor yourself for the license. IIt's not THAT expensive.

[DanielMa]

Working for such places can also be very rewarding, can it not? Besides, suppose someone wants to become a CC president (or a CC system chansellor). Those are definitely high prestige and selective positions.

Тhat's where you and NEVA differ. NEVA's definition of reward includes working at prestigeous places and not being a president of CC.

[Milasha]

Working for such places can also be very rewarding, can it not? Besides, suppose someone wants to become a CC president (or a CC system chansellor). Those are definitely high prestige and selective positions.

Тhat's where you and NEVA differ. NEVA's definition of reward includes working at prestigeous places and not being a president of CC.

NEVA didn't say that. If that's really her definition, then yeah, we differ.

[NEVA]

Тhat's where you and NEVA differ. NEVA's definition of reward includes working at prestigeous places and not being a president of CC.

Not necessarily, Daniel. I wasn't thinking about myself at all. I always try to look at the problem from the standpoint of the person asking. Here the person asking is at the very beginning of her educational and career ladder. And strategically I believe that it is unwise to start one's education by excluding any potential employment opportunities, which is what going to a cc would accomplish. I think the best strategy would be to maximize the opportunities available to you. If one has no choice, clearly going to cc is better than not going anywhere. However, if going to a regular college is a viable option, I think that route would be preferable. Imho.

[Primavera]

PS You can well sponsor yourself for the license. IIt's not THAT expensive.

It's not money, it's a work experience requirement that you must work 2 years or some number of hours under CPA and he/she has to write a recommendation for you (special form) without that you don't get a license. You don't need that to take the exam, The work experience requirement is in the most of states, unless you don't have it in Florida.

[LapkaL]

Хорошо, когда есть и мозги, и деньги на частный университет. Но и для студентов СС с мозгами не так все мрачно, шанс в приличную компанию попасть все же есть, хотя надо сильно постараться.
У меня два свежих примера.
Пример #1.
2 года СС - трансфер UC Berkeley - intership и последующий job offer в JP Morgan, работа в JP Morgan.
Пример #2.
2 года СС - трансфер UC Berkeley - intership и последующий job offer JP Morgan, после этого еще несколько заманчивых предложений, в том числе подписанный job offer в Goldman Sachs.

[Valeus]

It's not money, it's a work experience requirement that you must work 2 yeras or some number of hours under CPA ...

Я только не совсем понимаю, как МВА related to СРА. CPA=professional designation, базирующаяся на знаниях и опыте, MBA=academic degree. Ваш пример про безработного МВА-щика скорее относится к вопросу о полезности получения МВА (ну или любого business-related мастера) не из top-10 school да без опыта работы. [My view: довольно-таки useless. ]

По теме могу сказать, что да, комм. колледжа в резюме лучше избегать, ибо да, есть группа людей (в том числе работодателей), которые считают такую строчку минусом в квалификации человека. Однако, на мой взгляд, есть ситуации, когда факт обучения в КК не будет негативно влиять на дальнейшую карьеру. К таким ситуациям я отношу:
- transfer to a good school & getting BS/BA degree there (в конце концов, если известно, что будущий работодатель - сноб, то строчку про КК можно спокойно убрать, ибо она собственно уже не интересна - перечисляют обычно бакалавратов, мастеров, докторов);
- "концентрация" на определенных профессиональных классах при наличии высшего образования. Про свой опыт я тут много писала, но до сих пор получаю личные сообщения: "А как же это получилось взять классы в КК и сдать на СРА?" КК бывают разные по качеству и по целям. Кстати, из всех моих партнеров по фирме, закончивших местные модные школы (USC, UCLA), никто не сдал СРА экзамены с первого раза, только мне удалось это сделать, да еще и сразу после tax season с его 55-часовой рабочей неделей. Мои знания предмета были исключительно из КК. Я знаю, что с моей нынешней квалификацией я могла бы довольно легко перейти сейчас работать в сравнительно модные места типа big 4.

С КК, я бы сказала, куда бОльшая опасность существует там завязнуть. Если нет хорошего in/out стимула, типа F1 s 12+ юнитами в семестр, то очень часто тяжело сориентироваться, какие классы брать, на чем концентрироваться и пр., в виду практического отсутствия хороших канселоров по учебе. Мне попадались ребята на их 7-м году обучения в КК. В 4-х летней школе с этим полегче, насколько мне известно.

[Primavera]

It's not money, it's a work experience requirement that you must work 2 years or some number of hours under CPA and he/she has to write a recommendation for you (special form) without that you don't get a license. You don't need that to take the exam, The work experience requirement is in the most of states, unless you don't have it in Florida.

По отношению к CPA v том отрывке я писала про experience requirements for CPA license и там нет ни одного слова про MBA, не правда ли?

Мой пример про человека с MBA (3.98 GPA) не находяшему себе приличную работу относился к штату Флорида и к моему отношению к обучению в интернете. Не знаю на сколько легко будет найти работу после online курсов, если ученики обычных университетов находят с трудом.

[Valeus]

По отношению к CPA v том отрывке я писала про experience requirements for CPA license и там нет ни одного слова про MBA, не правда ли?

Разве это не Вы писали? -

I am certain that my regionally accredited CPA-qualifying DL degree will open more doors for me than it will close.

I wish you luck. Friend of mine got an MBA (not online) and still could find a decent job in Florida. You could find a job in a small firm but they have to sponsor you for the license. In the regular school you pay not only for education but also for future job placement because some companies hire people without experience only at sertain campuses.

Мой пример про человека с MBA (3.98 GPA) не находяшему себе приличную работу относился к штату Флорида и к моему отношению к обучению в интернете. Не знаю на сколько легко будет найти работу после online курсов, если ученики обычных университетов находят с трудом.

A-a-a, так понятнее, конечно, но все равно не совсем : зачем про лицензию было добавлять?
А по смыслу, МВА - не показатель. Знаю одну подругу с МВА после UCLA, так онa больше года себе в Лос Анжелесе работу найти не могла. После долгих мытарств нашла что-то типа office manager/accounts receivable.
Пример с MS in Accounting был бы более показателен, если уж про СРА-ев говорить.