Tomcat2 wrote:Я думал, что вы цифры напишите, а не будете читать мораль. Так вот мне известно, что потери Севера более миллиона, а Юга около 200 тыс.
Pozhaluysta :
* Vietnam War: Most historians of the Second Indochina War concern themselves primarily with the American Phase of the conflict, 1965-73; however, many do not specify whether their estimated death tolls cover only this phase of the war or the whole thing. An asterisk(*) indicates that the number seems to cover the entire conflict rather than just the American Phase, but check the "Sources" section to see exactly which years are covered by each authority:
o South Vietnam military: 185,000 to 225,000 (Britannica) or 220,357 (Lewy) or 223,748 (Summers; also 3 April 1995 AP) or 224,000 (Kutler, Olson) or 250,000 (Clodfelter, Grenville*) or 254,257 (Wallechinsky*) or 650,000 (Small & Singer) [MEDIAN: 224,000]
o North Vietnamese military and Viet Cong: 500,000 (S&S) or 660,000 (Olson) or 666,000 (Lewy, with the possibility that as many as 222,000 (1/3) of these were actually SVN civilians mistaken for VC) or 666,000 (Summers) or 700,000-1,000,000 (Wallechinsky*) or 900,000 (Britannica; Grenville*) or 1,000,000 (Clodfelter) or 1,100,000 (Tucker*, Official VN* [1954-75]) [MEDIAN: ca. 875,000]
o South Vietnamese civilians: 250,000 (Olson) or 287,000 (Clodfelter = 247,600 war deaths + 38,954 assassinated by NLF) or 300,000 (Kutler; Summers) or 340,000 (Lewy's estimate, with the possibility that an additional 222,000 counted as VC (above) belong in this category) or 430,000 (The Sen. E. Kennedy Commission, according to Lewy, Olson) or 522,000 (Wallechinsky*) or 1,000,000 (Britannica [in both North and South]; Eckhardt; Grenville*) or 2,000,000 (Tucker*, Official VN* [N&S, 1954-75],) [MEDIAN: ca. 476,000]
o North Vietnamese civilians: 65,000 (Kutler, Lewy, Olson, Summers, Wallechinsky) by American bombing.
o USA: 58,000 (Britannica) or 58,153 (Wallechinsky*) or 58,159 (Kutler) or 47,244 KIA + 10,446 other = 57,690 (Olson, Summers, 1961-80) or 56,146 (Lewy: 46,498 KIA + 10,388 other + 719 MIA) or 56,000 (S&S)
o South Korea: 4,407 (Lewy, Olson, Summers); 4,687 (Wallechinsky); 5,000 (S&S)
o Philippines: 1,000 (S&S)
o Thailand: 351 (Lewy, Olson, Summers, Wallechinsky); 1,000 (S&S)
o Australia: 469 (Lewy, Summers, Olson [w/NZ]); 492 (S&S); 494 (Wallechinsky); 520 (AWM)
o TOTAL: 1,216,000 (military only, S&S) or 1,312,000 (Summers) or 1,353,000 (Lewy) or 1,520,453 (WHPSI: S. Vietnamese only, 1965-75) or 1,637,000 (Olson) or 1,721,000 (Kutler) or 1,749,000 (Wallechinsky*) or 1,800,000 (B&J, 1960-75) or 2,058,000 (Eckhardt) or 2,163,000 (Britannica) or 2,500,000 (Grenville*) or 3,000,000 (1965-75, Chomsky* (1987)) or >3,100,000 (Tucker*; Official VN*)
o [MEDIAN of TOTALS: ca. 1,900,000] or [TOTAL of MEDIANS: ca. 1,710,000]
o Misc. Atrocities:
+ Lewy:
# 36,725 civilians assassinated by VC/NVA, 1957-72
# 2,800 civilians executed and 3,000 missing after Hue was captured by VC/NVA, 1968
# 400 civilians massacred by USAns in the area of Son My village, incl. 175-200 in My Lai hamlet, 1968
# Because of the lack of weapons recovered from many bodies, Lewy considers the possibility that up to 222,000 VC KIA may have actually been innocent bystanders. (Or maybe not. Poor evidence either way.)
+ Harff & Gurr: 475,000 civilians in NLF areas were victims of repressive politicide, 1965-72
+ Young: Hue massacre, 1968:
# Officially: 2,800-5,700
# Len Ackland: 300-400
+ Chomsky (1987): 21,000 VC civilian officials assassinated under US/GVN Phoenix project (-in text. Endnote gives estimates ranging 40-48,000.). Lewy considers these to be (mostly) legitimate military targets.
+ Rummel:
# 90,000 democides by South Vietnam:
* 1954-63: 39,000, incl. 24,000 dead in forced resettlement programs
* 1963-75: 51,000, incl. 30,000 executions
# 166,000 democides by NVN/VC in SVN:
* Officials assassinated: 17,000
* Civilians assassinated: 49,000
* Refugees killed, 1975: 50,000
* Misc: 50,000
* In addition to the American Phase of the War, there are four tangental conflicts which are sometimes discussed as part of the Vietnam War, but usually considered peripheral:
1. Vietnamese Civil War, internal phase, 1960-65
o Clodfelter, 1961-64
+ South Vietnam, military: 21,442
+ Communist: 71,000
+ Civilian: 160,000
+ TOTAL: 252,442
o Chomsky (1987):
+ 1957-61: 66,000 VC (p.274, citing B. Fall), 80,000 Vietnamese (p.323)
+ 1961-4/65: 89,000 VC
+ to mid 1966: 60,000 ("enemy" (McNamara) - "probably" including civilians (Chomsky))
+ Total, 1954-65: 160-170,000 VNese (p.324)
o S&S: 300,000 battle deaths, 1960-65
o Eckhardt: 200,000 civ. + 100,000 mil. = 300,000 (1960-65)
o Young: NLF lost 100,000 dead 1961-(?)64
o WHPSI:
+ 21,686 deaths by political violence in South Vietnam, 1960-64
+ 4,021 from 1955 to 1959
Tomcat2 wrote:Куда??? Ирак очень маленькая страна. Как обеспечить всех палатками питанием, средствами передвижения.
On vmesto etogo nikogo iz Bagdada ne vipuskayet.
Delo ne v tom shto u nego net palatok.
Tomcat2 wrote:Kastet wrote: Husseyna svoye sobstvennoye naseleniye
ne volnuyet. Pust hot vseh poubivayut, zato mozhno bydet
ameriku vo vseh smertnyh grehah obvinit'.
Понятно. Виноват не тот, кто убивает, а кого убиват.
Kto ubivayet mirnoye naseleniye - vinovat shto ubivayet,
voprosov net.
Kto podstavlyaet svoye naseleniye - tozhe vinovat
v etom, odnoznachno.
Hussein logichno polagayet, shto perenesya pole boya
v gustonaselenniye rayony svoih gorodov on silno
svyazhet US ruki. A esli bydut zhertvy v mirnom naselenii,
to eto eshe i na mezhdunarodnoy arene pomozhet.
Vy, dva postinga nazad, napisali, shto eto on ih
zashishayet.
. On ne ih, a sebya zashishayet.
A mirnoye naseleniye - podstavlyaet, poskolku
eto emy vygodno.
Svoy narod on repressiruyet pochti kak Stalin.
Hotya eto - "Vnutrenneye delo Iraka".
Tomcat2 wrote:Kastet wrote:Ya takzhe schitayu, shto dumat o posledstviyah svoih
deystviy nado zaraneye.
Я думаю, что в итоге вы скажете это президенту США
A shto - eto pomozhet?
Tomcat2 wrote:Kastet wrote:Husseyn svyazalsya s mirovoy
superderzhavoy za shto i rasplachivayetsya.
А я думал, что мировая держава напала на Ирак. Что вы там про нефть писали?
Napala. Pomnitsya mne shto bylo vremya Irak v soyuznikah hodil.
Protiv Irana. I neft u nih byla pochti obshaya
. "Neft v obmen na
tanki". Esli by Hussein ne voobrazil, shto smozhet
zahvatit ves region, nebos' po drugomu by vse slozhilos'.
