Агитпроп в Америке
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Агитпроп в Америке
Всегда подозревал, что американцы - в душе полные совки и вот такая пропаганда.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/li ... &cset=true
Stylized MARC 'Report' posters spark online buzz
By Justin Fenton and Sam Sessa
Sun Staff
Originally published June 15, 2005
During the evening rush hour at the Camden Yards MARC station recently, commuters emptying out of a train made a beeline for the parking lot or the light rail. They appeared to take little notice of the large posters in the station's windows that urged them to be more vigilant about security concerns.
In fact, since the posters' debut several months ago, that lack of response has been fairly typical among MARC users. But when an image of one of the posters showed up recently on some of the Internet's most popular blogs, reaction from those in cyberspace was swift -- and mostly unpleasant.
Web surfers -- including some curious passengers -- inundated MARC, the Maryland Transit Administration and rail line operator CSX with phone calls and e-mails, suggesting the posters smacked of fascism or "Big Brother"-style oppression. The response was "really bizarre," said Sharon Wicker, an MTA spokeswoman.
What set off the sudden uproar, it seems, was the security poster's resemblance to propaganda posters used by many governments during the first half of the 20th century.
Done in the heroic style typical of such posters, it depicts three people presumably riding a train. In the foreground is a brown-haired man, standing proud and stoic, his orange tie seemingly flapping in the wind. Behind him is another man and a woman grasping a pole. Below them, large bold words urge passengers to "Watch, Ride and Report" any suspicious activity or baggage.
The posters also are adorned with a MARC logo, incorporated into an Old West-style sheriff's badge that encourages riders to be "MARC Marshals." But they were commissioned by CSX, which owns and operates the rail lines that MARC uses for its Camden and Brunswick train lines.
CSX spokesman Gary Sease was nonplused by the Web buzz.
"During the creative process, all of us felt the posters needed to convey a very, very serious message," he said, refusing to elaborate on how the poster's look was determined. "It is unfortunate that people see something more sinister in the poster -- that was not our intent at all."
The posters might have gone without much notice, though, if Washington blogger Michael Wittie hadn't stumbled across a picture of one a week or so ago in cyberspace.
While scanning the Web recently, Wittie saw a photo posted by freelance Web designer Michael Lijewski, who had snapped a shot of the poster and put it on his train photography site. Wittie linked to the image on his site, "Articulatory Loop," hoping to start a discussion.
"I just thought it was really disturbing," said Wittie, a 25-year-old health service researcher.
From there, the popular DailyKos and Wonkette blogs picked up the poster, sparking heated debates in the comments sections of their sites. Some users chalked the posters up as a "sign of the times" in post-9/11 America. Others suggested they were fake or a self-aware joke perpetrated by MARC, or that they were initiated by the Department of Homeland Security.
Lijewski, a Fallston resident whose site usually attracts maybe 15,000 hits per month, received 156,000 over a four-day span.
CSX hired Jacksonville, Fla.-based Robin Shepherd Group advertising agency to craft the posters specifically for the company's Baltimore and D.C. lines. Many other cities and agencies have been promoting similar security messages in their bus, subway or train stations -- Boston even began stopping passengers for random ID checks in May 2004 -- but it's the style of CSX's posters that has touched a nerve.
In the 1930s and 1940s, posters in this style were used by Stalin's Russia and Hitler's Germany. They were also created in America to promote New Deal and Works Progress Administration projects, said Jay Fisher, deputy director for curatorial affairs at the Baltimore Museum of Art. The idealized figures were part of the movement's hallmark, he said.
"They don't look like real people," said Fisher, who added he was surprised in the choice of this style for the posters. "Their features are generalized. The first one looks kind of Dick Tracy-ish with that jutting chin. ... They look like they're chiseled out of stone."
The parallel to the past extends to the poster's slogan -- "Watch, Ride and Report" -- which emulates the brief but pointed messages of the older posters.
"I think the real discussion is, 'What's the effect of these kind of posters on the mindset?'" Wittie said. "Obviously it's to be paranoid and xenophobic. ... The graphic imagery, the fact that in the text there, the word 'report' is what's highlighted; that's quite scary."
Visiting the city from San Francisco for a conference, Brian Tobin said when he saw the poster at the Camden Yards station he thought it would go well next to the 1984-esque posters he has up in his room back home.
Tobin said there are similar posters on buses and trains in San Francisco that read: "Report Suspicious Activity." He said many San Franciscans don't react well to the posters -- some have even scribbled the words "Big-Brother is watching" on them.
So far, it seems, none of the MARC posters has been vandalized, and it's not clear how much attention they've drawn from passengers. MTA officials say they haven't seen an increase in reports of suspicious activity in the past several months.
John Hals, who was checking into MARC schedules yesterday, said the poster didn't bother him, though he did recognize the similarities in style. "The old posters were more kind of like, we've got to work together; they appealed to patriotism. This is more stylistic," said Hals, 40, of Federal Hill. "If anything, it's kind of colorful."
Joe McNeil, who was riding the MARC during a visit from Burlington, Vt., said the poster resembles something he saw in Russia when he visited the country several weeks ago. He said the poster wouldn't make him want to report suspicious activity at all.
"It would make me want to do just the opposite," he said. "Don't get near any of these people. Nice chins, though."
http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/li ... &cset=true
Stylized MARC 'Report' posters spark online buzz
By Justin Fenton and Sam Sessa
Sun Staff
Originally published June 15, 2005
During the evening rush hour at the Camden Yards MARC station recently, commuters emptying out of a train made a beeline for the parking lot or the light rail. They appeared to take little notice of the large posters in the station's windows that urged them to be more vigilant about security concerns.
In fact, since the posters' debut several months ago, that lack of response has been fairly typical among MARC users. But when an image of one of the posters showed up recently on some of the Internet's most popular blogs, reaction from those in cyberspace was swift -- and mostly unpleasant.
Web surfers -- including some curious passengers -- inundated MARC, the Maryland Transit Administration and rail line operator CSX with phone calls and e-mails, suggesting the posters smacked of fascism or "Big Brother"-style oppression. The response was "really bizarre," said Sharon Wicker, an MTA spokeswoman.
What set off the sudden uproar, it seems, was the security poster's resemblance to propaganda posters used by many governments during the first half of the 20th century.
Done in the heroic style typical of such posters, it depicts three people presumably riding a train. In the foreground is a brown-haired man, standing proud and stoic, his orange tie seemingly flapping in the wind. Behind him is another man and a woman grasping a pole. Below them, large bold words urge passengers to "Watch, Ride and Report" any suspicious activity or baggage.
The posters also are adorned with a MARC logo, incorporated into an Old West-style sheriff's badge that encourages riders to be "MARC Marshals." But they were commissioned by CSX, which owns and operates the rail lines that MARC uses for its Camden and Brunswick train lines.
CSX spokesman Gary Sease was nonplused by the Web buzz.
"During the creative process, all of us felt the posters needed to convey a very, very serious message," he said, refusing to elaborate on how the poster's look was determined. "It is unfortunate that people see something more sinister in the poster -- that was not our intent at all."
The posters might have gone without much notice, though, if Washington blogger Michael Wittie hadn't stumbled across a picture of one a week or so ago in cyberspace.
While scanning the Web recently, Wittie saw a photo posted by freelance Web designer Michael Lijewski, who had snapped a shot of the poster and put it on his train photography site. Wittie linked to the image on his site, "Articulatory Loop," hoping to start a discussion.
"I just thought it was really disturbing," said Wittie, a 25-year-old health service researcher.
From there, the popular DailyKos and Wonkette blogs picked up the poster, sparking heated debates in the comments sections of their sites. Some users chalked the posters up as a "sign of the times" in post-9/11 America. Others suggested they were fake or a self-aware joke perpetrated by MARC, or that they were initiated by the Department of Homeland Security.
Lijewski, a Fallston resident whose site usually attracts maybe 15,000 hits per month, received 156,000 over a four-day span.
CSX hired Jacksonville, Fla.-based Robin Shepherd Group advertising agency to craft the posters specifically for the company's Baltimore and D.C. lines. Many other cities and agencies have been promoting similar security messages in their bus, subway or train stations -- Boston even began stopping passengers for random ID checks in May 2004 -- but it's the style of CSX's posters that has touched a nerve.
In the 1930s and 1940s, posters in this style were used by Stalin's Russia and Hitler's Germany. They were also created in America to promote New Deal and Works Progress Administration projects, said Jay Fisher, deputy director for curatorial affairs at the Baltimore Museum of Art. The idealized figures were part of the movement's hallmark, he said.
"They don't look like real people," said Fisher, who added he was surprised in the choice of this style for the posters. "Their features are generalized. The first one looks kind of Dick Tracy-ish with that jutting chin. ... They look like they're chiseled out of stone."
The parallel to the past extends to the poster's slogan -- "Watch, Ride and Report" -- which emulates the brief but pointed messages of the older posters.
"I think the real discussion is, 'What's the effect of these kind of posters on the mindset?'" Wittie said. "Obviously it's to be paranoid and xenophobic. ... The graphic imagery, the fact that in the text there, the word 'report' is what's highlighted; that's quite scary."
Visiting the city from San Francisco for a conference, Brian Tobin said when he saw the poster at the Camden Yards station he thought it would go well next to the 1984-esque posters he has up in his room back home.
Tobin said there are similar posters on buses and trains in San Francisco that read: "Report Suspicious Activity." He said many San Franciscans don't react well to the posters -- some have even scribbled the words "Big-Brother is watching" on them.
So far, it seems, none of the MARC posters has been vandalized, and it's not clear how much attention they've drawn from passengers. MTA officials say they haven't seen an increase in reports of suspicious activity in the past several months.
John Hals, who was checking into MARC schedules yesterday, said the poster didn't bother him, though he did recognize the similarities in style. "The old posters were more kind of like, we've got to work together; they appealed to patriotism. This is more stylistic," said Hals, 40, of Federal Hill. "If anything, it's kind of colorful."
Joe McNeil, who was riding the MARC during a visit from Burlington, Vt., said the poster resembles something he saw in Russia when he visited the country several weeks ago. He said the poster wouldn't make him want to report suspicious activity at all.
"It would make me want to do just the opposite," he said. "Don't get near any of these people. Nice chins, though."
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Re: Агитпроп в Америке
Дирижбамбельь wrote:Всегда подозревал, что американцы - в душе полные совки и вот такая пропаганда.
Как прикажите понимать ваше предложение?
Потрудитесь выражатся яснее. Хочется с вами подискутировать, но ваш ход мыслей абсолютно не понятен.[/quote]
Cinema, simulated life and trauma, birthright, culture, Americana (C) RATM
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Re: Агитпроп в Америке
[/quote]Global wrote:Дирижбамбельь wrote:Всегда подозревал, что американцы - в душе полные совки и вот такая пропаганда.
Как прикажите понимать ваше предложение?
Потрудитесь выражатся яснее. Хочется с вами подискутировать, но ваш ход мыслей абсолютно не понятен.
Потружусь. Мне почему-то кажется, что если страна косит под демократию, то употребление тоталитарной эстетики в публичных местах не должно приветствоваться. Т.е., конечно, американцы сурово злоупотребляют своим флагом, так что какой-нибудь затрапезный матч по ам. футболу в провинции со стороны выглядит как партийный конгресс третего рейха, но такие плакатики - это как-то уж чересчур..., или чересчур правдиво?
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Re: Агитпроп в Америке
Дирижбамбельь wrote:Global wrote:Дирижбамбельь wrote:Всегда подозревал, что американцы - в душе полные совки и вот такая пропаганда.
Как прикажите понимать ваше предложение?
Потрудитесь выражатся яснее. Хочется с вами подискутировать, но ваш ход мыслей абсолютно не понятен.
Потружусь. Мне почему-то кажется, что если страна косит под демократию, то употребление тоталитарной эстетики в публичных местах не должно приветствоваться.
Вас смущает ВИД плаката , его содержание, или message о том что надо report unusual activities and packages (то есть для Вас это выглядит как доносительство)?
Cinema, simulated life and trauma, birthright, culture, Americana (C) RATM
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Re: Агитпроп в Америке
Global wrote: Вас смущает ВИД плаката , его содержание, или message о том что надо report unusual activities and packages (то есть для Вас это выглядит как доносительство)?
Меня ничего не смущает. Меня слегка прикалывает, что с одной стороны, страна косит под оплот демократии и справедливости во всем мире, а с другой стороны является примитивным полицейским государством.
Это безусловно выглядит, как призыв к доносительству и мне кажется, что чем заниматься такой фигней, лучше бы делали какие-то более серьезные, но при этом, страшно подумать, совершенно неполиткорректные шаги, как racial profiling, т.е. это тупо и, может быть, попросту преступно делать вид, что в аэропорту людей для дополнительной проверки выбирают случайно из всех, вместо того, чтобы декларировать, что если вы - мусульманин или выглядите как мусульманин, то мы вас проверим.
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Re: Агитпроп в Америке
Дирижбамбельь wrote: что если вы - мусульманин или выглядите как мусульманин, то мы вас проверим.
Очень продуктивная идея
Или - сегодня дежурит смена негров и все белые будут проверятся с пристрастием
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vaduz wrote:Сообщить о подозрительном свертке полицейскому - это доносительство?
До такого даже в Москве не додумаются.
Айсберг скажет...
Понимаете, одно дело - сообщить о свертке, другое дело - сообщить о свертке и корчить из себя при этом Брюса Виллиса, спасшего планету от астероида... Данный плакат подразумевает немереные героизм и бдительность всех стукнувших.
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Re: Агитпроп в Америке
Sergunka wrote:Дирижбамбельь wrote: что если вы - мусульманин или выглядите как мусульманин, то мы вас проверим.
Очень продуктивная идея
Или - сегодня дежурит смена негров и все белые будут проверятся с пристрастием
Против большинства никакие такого типа меры не действуют ("всех не перевешаете")...
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Дирижбамбельь wrote:vaduz wrote:Сообщить о подозрительном свертке полицейскому - это доносительство?
До такого даже в Москве не додумаются.
Айсберг скажет...
Понимаете, одно дело - сообщить о свертке, другое дело - сообщить о свертке и корчить из себя при этом Брюса Виллиса, спасшего планету от астероида... Данный плакат подразумевает немереные героизм и бдительность всех стукнувших.
Если вы спасете даже одного человека сообщив в милицию о подозрительном пакете - я буду не против, чтобы вы корчили из себя Брюса Виллиса...
Да даже если и в пакете ничего не будет - да корчите себе на здоровье.
Хуже если не сообщите, побоявшись показаться Брюсом Виллисом...
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Дирижбамбельь wrote:Понимаете, одно дело - сообщить о свертке, другое дело - сообщить о свертке и корчить из себя при этом Брюса Виллиса, спасшего планету от астероида... Данный плакат подразумевает немереные героизм и бдительность всех стукнувших.
Тю. Я даже когда мусор выношу, чувствую себя спасителем цивилизации, почему бы и нет? И мусор вынесен, и id довольно.
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Sergunka wrote:Sergey___K wrote:Предложите свою версию плаката?сообщить о свертке и корчить из себя при этом Брюса Виллиса, спасшего планету от астероида...
"Вчера не стукнул, сегодня взорвался"
"Тщательно стучите, товарищи! этим Вы помогаете обществу" (с)
"Каждому доносчику по новому мерседесу, бесплатно"
Ну, подписи, понятно, я других и не ожидал. Самое главное, что же там должно быть нарисовано?
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Sergey___K wrote:Ну, подписи, понятно, я других и не ожидал. Самое главное, что же там должно быть нарисовано?
Ну, не плагиат же с Дейнеки? и фашистких плакатов тридцатых годов в духе "Радость через силу" Или вот образчик особенно менять даже не надо вместо НСДАП надо секьюрити хомленд написать
Т.е. есть совершенно четкие штампы соц.реализма: побольше красной краски, честных лиц на фоне флагов, что сразу вызывает рвотную реакцию как минимум у одной шестой суши
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Дирижбамбельь wrote:Sergey___K wrote:Ну, подписи, понятно, я других и не ожидал. Самое главное, что же там должно быть нарисовано?
Три мускулистых руки (белая-желтая-черная) держащих молот и бьющих гидру в тюрбане и с бородой, сжимающей бомбу в ручонке...
Уже было правда несколько в другой интерпретации но тоже в общем произведение то еще из Германии 30-х