law school-2

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kanada
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Post by kanada »

DanielMa wrote: Зарплата для associate в big law firm 160+бонус (45 в прошлом году) для выпусников.


Kirkland Ellis поднимает в этом году до 190K (в Chikago).

DanielMa wrote: Я думаю tax partners зарабатывают немного меньше своих corporate собратьев. Наверно от 500k до 2mil.


Проблема в одном, дожить до этого партнерства.
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Post by DanielMa »

Komissar wrote:
DanielMa wrote:
Я не знаю про рынок работы в Little Rock, AZ.


Даня, AZ is for Arizona. Домашнее задание: придумать 2-х буквенное сочетание для Арканзаса.

Она сказала что ищет работу в Little Rock, Arizona. Что неправильно?
Marisha76
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Post by Marisha76 »

Little Rock is a capital of Arkansas (AR)
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Post by DanielMa »

Marisha76 wrote:Little Rock is a capital of Arkansas (AR)


А, извините, ошибся. Почему то подумал что вы в Аризоне. Там тоже есть Little Rock, хотя и не столица.
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Post by Marisha76 »

Нашла 2 классные книги по поиску работы.
Кто идет учиться, или уже учиться, ОЧЕнь рекомендую прочитать.
Потому что столько разных нюансов, никто не подскажет, до всего дохожу методом проб и ошибок.
Вообщем
1. America's greatest places to work with a law degree. by Kimm Alayne Walton.

2. Guerrilla tactics for getting the legal job of your dreams by Kimm Alayne Walton.

Обе книги есть на амазоне и в лау скул библиотеке. Не обязательно новую эдишн покупать, можно купить старую за 3 доллара, там очень ценная инфо. Я читаю, кто бы раньше расказал. Посмотрите отзывы на том же амазоне
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Post by Marisha76 »

В первой книжке описаны много лау фирм кот. существуют, в основном большие, как там работают, где тебя грузят работой, а где садики для детей устраивают, атмосфера, конкретно про каждую фирму, и как туда попасть, кто контактное лицо кот. занимается набором персонала, из каких школ набирают, кроме фирм работа на говермент, как туда апллаиться, ссылки на разные вебсайты для поиска работы для юристов именно. Все сферы где можешь работать и как туда попасть,

Во второй книжке про нетворкинг, как резюме писать, что говорить на интервью и что нет, вторую я еще не читала, сейчас первую читаю. В каждой книжке по 500 страниц примерно, очень много инфо.
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kanada
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Post by kanada »

Вам бы сесть на телефон и обзвонить hiring партнерс. :) Проверено, работает.
Книжку прокоментировать не могу, не читал.
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Post by HOMOLUMO »

а вот..а вот...раз уж речь про ло скулы...что у нас с "intellectual property law" ? Перспективно ли? И правда ли что лоеров со знаниями в области наук такая нехватка что фирмы готовы проплатить тебе ло скул только чтобы ты на них работал? (это мне недавно студентка американка сказала которая собирается идти в ло скул) Или это всё сказки и интеллектуальных лоеров хоть пруд пруди? Не думаю что мне литигэйшен интересен, скорее "drafting patents" всё больше доходу чем NIH grant "drafting" :-D лично у меня знания в области биологии/химии
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kanada
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Post by kanada »

IP area of law is growing. Write to Alex Denisoff, he works in IP. Even after graduating from the shitiest school you can land 100K+ first year. If you think this salary is good, go for it.
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kanada
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Post by kanada »

Хочу высказать свое мнение о practice of law in general.

Practice of law is nothing more than ordinary sales. All your life, starting from the day you decide to submit your application to law school of your dreams you'll be selling something. All your professional life as a lawyer you’ll be selling.

First, you'll be selling yourself to the admission committee. You’ll have to come up with some BS explaining why they should take you in. This sale is easy. You gonna show your grades, make up a story about your hard life, ability to study and desire to help poor.

Second big sale is selling yourself to prospective employer. This one is little harder. Here, you have to convince them that you are perfect applicant and you are way better than other 30,000 hungry graduates who would kill for this job.

Next big sale: selling yourself to new boss. Here, you have to convince him to give you The Work, not just a regular routine work.

Once you have some experience and sold yourself to your boss, you should be ready to sell yourself to the client. This step is the most important one, assuming you still want to be a lawyer by this time. You have to convince them why they have to work with you and not the other 100 guys with more experience from your department.

Next: selling your firm to the client. Why you and your firm but not the other million law firms across the street.

If you work in litigation, you have considerably more selling to do. However, here you are not sellingyourself only. You will be selling your case regardless of whether or not your case is strong or the biggest piece of shit on this planet. First of all, you have to sell your case to the opposing counsel. You must create a solid impression in his head that your case is strong and winnable.

Then you go in front of a judge and continue your dual selling: (1) your case is as good as gold; and (2) you know the law better than him and opposing counsel.

Sometimes, you’ll have the jury trials. This time, you are selling yourself only. Facts are facts, you cannot change them. However, you can make them like you more than the other guy in $5,000-dollar suit across the courtroom. This skill will make or break your case.
_______

Sorry for the mistakes; I was selling myself to prospective clients at the poker table while consuming excessive amounts of alcohol and speaking about stupid Chicago Cubs game. It's really hard :)

Why did I write it? If you have troubles landing your first job, think for a second what’s waiting for you next.
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Post by HOMOLUMO »

I want to have 4-5 bedroom house in marin county and I also want to have 3-4 cute little kids. Therefore 100K+ is not considered a good salary ;) nor is 200K+, nor is 300K+ ...nor is 400K+ ....

What you said about practicing law is totally applicable to Science. sell yourself to gradschool, then to your boss, then to your another boss, then to Harvard to convince them to hire you, then sell your ideas to NIH to convince them to fund you, sell yourself to HHMI to convince them to hire you and give you 1M per year for research...etc...
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Post by Marisha76 »

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kanada
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Post by kanada »

HOMOLUMO wrote:I want to have 4-5 bedroom house in marin county and I also want to have 3-4 cute little kids. Therefore 100K+ is not considered a good salary ;) nor is 200K+, nor is 300K+ ...nor is 400K+ ....

What you said about practicing law is totally applicable to Science. sell yourself to gradschool, then to your boss, then to your another boss, then to Harvard to convince them to hire you, then sell your ideas to NIH to convince them to fund you, sell yourself to HHMI to convince them to hire you and give you 1M per year for research...etc...


Whatever I sad above is totally applicable to LIFE. Ability to sell moves the world around us. You have to sell yourself on a first date to get some sex same night; you have sell to business partner and clients to stay in business, sell to bank in order to get most favorable loan trems, ........ . Practice of law is nothing more than ordinary business.

You should be fine. JD will open doors for you, many of which are closed at this time. I know a lot of lawyers who live in 5M houses and live the life of super stars. They have one thing in common - they are excelent sales people.

Here is a piece of info that changed my perception of the profession: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/ ... ype=phrase
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kanada
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Post by kanada »

Let me tell you another story :) Do you guys know how huge companies pick a law firm for their Chapter 11 bancrupcy? If you don't know, here, we are talking about 10-20-30-50 millions in legal fees.

They call up 5-6 law firms ask them to prepair a presentation in why-we-should-hire-you-for-this-job style :) Then they allocate some time to each firm to make their sales pitch :) :) :) Guess, who is doing the pitch? The guy who was first in class in Harvard and knows the bancupcy code by heart; or the guy who can get the job but did not do any legal work at least 10 years because he was busy attending all kinds of dinners and golf games. Place your bets :)
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Post by Marisha76 »

Second guy?
I hope not because otherwise I just waisted 2 years of my life.
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Post by DanielMa »

kanada wrote:The guy who was first in class in Harvard and knows the bancupcy code by heart; or the guy who can get the job but did not do any legal work at least 10 years because he was busy attending all kinds of dinners and golf games. Place your bets :)


It will be a guy who was in the middle of his class in Harvard and is busy attending dinners and golf games.
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Post by kanada »

Attend - мало. У меня на фирме, golf outings and dinners are mandatory to everyone.
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kanada
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Post by kanada »

Marisha76 wrote:I hope not because otherwise I just waisted 2 years of my life.


На уровне исполнителя все ОК. Пришел на работу, положили тебе работу на стол, ты ее сделал и ушел домой к семье.

Тыт мы говорим о людях с амбициями HOMOLUMO. :mrgreen:
Last edited by kanada on 02 Jun 2008 13:42, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by HOMOLUMO »

kanada wrote:Here is a piece of info that changed my perception of the profession: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/ ... ype=phrase


this is why I lean more toward JD than MBA. MBA is a just a business, while JDs is not just law, JDs bridge business and law and exposed to both. Patent lawyers are even crazier - they have to be in science/law/business at the same time :-D

kanada wrote:The guy who was first in class in Harvard and knows the bancupcy code by heart; or the guy who can get the job but did not do any legal work at least 10 years because he was busy attending all kinds of dinners and golf games. Place your bets


are you talking about one guy? :mrgreen:
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kanada
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Post by kanada »

Кстати, есть еше один замечательный пример how weak lawyering combined good salesmenship can get you somewhere. Just look at Obama :lol: He couldn't make it in Sidley but ..........
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Post by DanielMa »

kanada wrote:Кстати, есть еше один замечательный пример how weak lawyering combined good salesmenship can get you somewhere. Just look at Obama :lol: He couldn't make it in Sidley but ..........


Most people work only 2-3 years in Sidley. It has nothing to do with "couldn't make it" He just wanted to do something else.
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kanada
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Post by kanada »

DanielMa wrote:
kanada wrote:Кстати, есть еше один замечательный пример how weak lawyering combined good salesmenship can get you somewhere. Just look at Obama :lol: He couldn't make it in Sidley but ..........


Most people work only 2-3 years in Sidley. It has nothing to do with "couldn't make it" He just wanted to do something else.


Are you sure he worked there 2-3 years? :lol: I thought he was kicked out of there after summer intership :wink: People are still talking about his "brilliant" work up there.
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Post by DanielMa »

kanada wrote:
Are you sure he worked there 2-3 years? :lol: I thought he was kicked out of there after summer intership :wink: People are still talking about his "brilliant" work up there.


That's true, he was there only for the summer. You are not supposed to do any real work while a Summer Associate. It's all about parties, 4 hour lunches, and schmoozing.
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Post by Alex Denisoff »

HOMOLUMO wrote:И правда ли что лоеров со знаниями в области наук такая нехватка что фирмы готовы проплатить тебе ло скул только чтобы ты на них работал?


Насчет "готовы проплатить law school" -- лично мне таких не попадалось.

HOMOLUMO wrote: Или это всё сказки и интеллектуальных лоеров хоть пруд пруди?


"Пруд пруди" будет сильным преувеличением.

По данным AIPLA, средняя запплата IP law associate от 109K (1 год опыта) до 196К (9 лет опыта).

Third (25%) quartile -- от 130K (1 год опыта) до 221К (9 лет опыта).
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Post by AlienCreature »

Alex Denisoff wrote:По данным AIPLA, средняя запплата IP law associate от 109K (1 год опыта) до 196К (9 лет опыта).

Third (25%) quartile -- от 130K (1 год опыта) до 221К (9 лет опыта).

Это все W2? :?

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