За три года после революции «достоинства», на Украине уже начинают преследовать не только за свободу слова, но и за способность мыслить.
Комментарии Шария можно игнорировать, а вот предоставленный материал очень выразителен.
Свобода слова на Украине
-
brrdrr
- Уже с Приветом
- Posts: 9563
- Joined: 26 Mar 2011 23:02
- Location: Russia -> Orlando, FL
Свобода слова на Украине
Человек никогда не бывает так несчастен, как ему кажется, или так счастлив, как ему хочется. (Франсуа де Ларошфуко)
-
Vоvan
- Уже с Приветом
- Posts: 4303
- Joined: 20 Mar 2004 03:19
- Location: KO69
Re: Свобода слова на Украине
Бвха...
Вот что у меня сложилось после поездки туды - на аглицком потому что аглоязычному человеку писал... Там РЕАЛЬНО слушают кто что говорит и люди которые хоть както умеют думать - молчат себе в трубочку или просто делятся этим всем на кухне. Очень много прослушивают телефоны - особенно у госслужащих (даже учителей) и более менее руководителей. Короче или СССР но похуже. Самое интересное что народ с этим живет - то есть ему все равно, судя по продажам мест в очередях, контрабанде через посты, и прочим платным удобствам для "толпы" которую имеют с каждым днем все крепче и крепче
--
I flew back to Kiev and got picked up by my cousin. She and her boyfriend live in Dimitrov (Mirnograd) - city east of Krasnoarmeisk (Pokrovsk now) : approx 40 kilometers from demarcation line. They haven't had any military action except hearing distant booms when this just started, but mostly, it was peaceful. On the way from Kiev it didnt feel any different - people driving, people selling things and food on the side of the road, little cafes and hotels - just like nothing was going on, people move on with their lives. That was the road from Kiev to Kharkiv. Once we turned off south towards Donbass I notices that roads and towns got less "flashy". Saw couple of military convoys coming from Donbass and going towards. Passed through one checkpoint, but nothing out of ordinary.
In the town itself it seem peaceful, felt like it was 15 years ago : hard to explain, but somehow people felt "down" Once in a while some military vehicle would go down the street or military helicopter would fly over : that was weird. You are in between people's regular daily routine but then you feel some tension in the air. My family, cousin's and I went to a nearby grounds of a local businessman who bought out old farm land and is trying to set up something like a nature camp. We went fishing and spent a day at his tiny lake. While there I saw a brigade (20 or so) young boys, probably freshly drafted 18-20 year olds in Ukrainian uniforms with two of their commanders. Commanders when fishing in the lake on the other side, and young ones went around the property on a tour. The owner guy said to us "Dont say ANYTHING!" and told us to wait discussing it until they left. Then their lieutenant (no idea about rankins) fished out little fish from the lake and whistled back, to which another commander aligned young boys in the line and ordered them to applaud to their senior's catch. That was ridiculous and painful to watch at the same time. What are those youngsters doing there???? They got drafted, sent to Donbass right away and you look at them ant think - WTF? They WILL get killed if they sent to the frontlines. They looked like bunch of kids. Some higher up idiot ORDERED them to be deployed against their own people. Anyway... Maybe they will be smart enough to stay away.
So once they left, the owner guy comes all shaky and explains : he is a "small business" person. But he does not feel secure at all. He said there is no protection, government or military can come any time on his land and either use it as an exercise ground, or set up a base and just be there doing whatever they want. So he tries to brownnose everyone he can to have some sort of "protection" It's like back in 1990s : mafia, racket, shady deals, people are afraid. He said he is not sure what will happen tomorrow. He just lives day by day hoping no one takes his land/money away. He said yes : they can do it, for no reason, and you cant do anything about it. That's the reality. Ordinary people feel even worse : no future, no certainty. People who have apartments or houses from good times (2000s or Yanukovich times) - at least those people have roofs over their heads and can get by, for others there are not many options. Jobs are sparse, pay is low. For young people there is an option to go to the army and they advertise it - to get contract pay, be sent to Donbass and defend "United Ukraine", some try it, crazy ones go there and play "brave", get wounded or killed, smart ones see what that really is and avoid that at all costs. Gloomy. It totally felt like someone took people's lives and rolled it back 15 years : but 15 years ago there was future, now people dont feel it, you lost what you achieved and you dont know what's going to happen tomorrow. Very sad. Also another thing what stood out : people are afraid to tell something. They say that if someone hears them saying something against the government and the whole situation : they will get arrested. People are snitching more because SBU (internal service) encourages it and pays reward for such things, and again, because lots of people struggle with money - that becomes an option. It's worse than it was during USSR times - is that something people on Maidan jumped for ??? So it was very sad feeling. You see ordinary people live their daily lives, they by now just ignore the problem with the east, to them it's more of an inconvenience of waiting in lines at checkpoints, paying bribes to get them or their goods through, they dont care about politics of all that, and that's saddening : they did have lives in Yanukovich times, they had future, they were buyin cars, flats, they were going on vacations, had relatively good jobs so they could afford to go to Europe, Turkey, Thailand, etc : it DID NOT MATTER whether they had vis or visa-free travel : system DID WORK, and people LIVED. Now it's not there anymore. And they dont trust new government : saying it's more corrupt than before, but then also this one has blood of their own citizens on their hands. And guess what - there is no Maidan. I really wonder why..... and I think we all know why.
---
Вот что у меня сложилось после поездки туды - на аглицком потому что аглоязычному человеку писал... Там РЕАЛЬНО слушают кто что говорит и люди которые хоть както умеют думать - молчат себе в трубочку или просто делятся этим всем на кухне. Очень много прослушивают телефоны - особенно у госслужащих (даже учителей) и более менее руководителей. Короче или СССР но похуже. Самое интересное что народ с этим живет - то есть ему все равно, судя по продажам мест в очередях, контрабанде через посты, и прочим платным удобствам для "толпы" которую имеют с каждым днем все крепче и крепче
--
I flew back to Kiev and got picked up by my cousin. She and her boyfriend live in Dimitrov (Mirnograd) - city east of Krasnoarmeisk (Pokrovsk now) : approx 40 kilometers from demarcation line. They haven't had any military action except hearing distant booms when this just started, but mostly, it was peaceful. On the way from Kiev it didnt feel any different - people driving, people selling things and food on the side of the road, little cafes and hotels - just like nothing was going on, people move on with their lives. That was the road from Kiev to Kharkiv. Once we turned off south towards Donbass I notices that roads and towns got less "flashy". Saw couple of military convoys coming from Donbass and going towards. Passed through one checkpoint, but nothing out of ordinary.
In the town itself it seem peaceful, felt like it was 15 years ago : hard to explain, but somehow people felt "down" Once in a while some military vehicle would go down the street or military helicopter would fly over : that was weird. You are in between people's regular daily routine but then you feel some tension in the air. My family, cousin's and I went to a nearby grounds of a local businessman who bought out old farm land and is trying to set up something like a nature camp. We went fishing and spent a day at his tiny lake. While there I saw a brigade (20 or so) young boys, probably freshly drafted 18-20 year olds in Ukrainian uniforms with two of their commanders. Commanders when fishing in the lake on the other side, and young ones went around the property on a tour. The owner guy said to us "Dont say ANYTHING!" and told us to wait discussing it until they left. Then their lieutenant (no idea about rankins) fished out little fish from the lake and whistled back, to which another commander aligned young boys in the line and ordered them to applaud to their senior's catch. That was ridiculous and painful to watch at the same time. What are those youngsters doing there???? They got drafted, sent to Donbass right away and you look at them ant think - WTF? They WILL get killed if they sent to the frontlines. They looked like bunch of kids. Some higher up idiot ORDERED them to be deployed against their own people. Anyway... Maybe they will be smart enough to stay away.
So once they left, the owner guy comes all shaky and explains : he is a "small business" person. But he does not feel secure at all. He said there is no protection, government or military can come any time on his land and either use it as an exercise ground, or set up a base and just be there doing whatever they want. So he tries to brownnose everyone he can to have some sort of "protection" It's like back in 1990s : mafia, racket, shady deals, people are afraid. He said he is not sure what will happen tomorrow. He just lives day by day hoping no one takes his land/money away. He said yes : they can do it, for no reason, and you cant do anything about it. That's the reality. Ordinary people feel even worse : no future, no certainty. People who have apartments or houses from good times (2000s or Yanukovich times) - at least those people have roofs over their heads and can get by, for others there are not many options. Jobs are sparse, pay is low. For young people there is an option to go to the army and they advertise it - to get contract pay, be sent to Donbass and defend "United Ukraine", some try it, crazy ones go there and play "brave", get wounded or killed, smart ones see what that really is and avoid that at all costs. Gloomy. It totally felt like someone took people's lives and rolled it back 15 years : but 15 years ago there was future, now people dont feel it, you lost what you achieved and you dont know what's going to happen tomorrow. Very sad. Also another thing what stood out : people are afraid to tell something. They say that if someone hears them saying something against the government and the whole situation : they will get arrested. People are snitching more because SBU (internal service) encourages it and pays reward for such things, and again, because lots of people struggle with money - that becomes an option. It's worse than it was during USSR times - is that something people on Maidan jumped for ??? So it was very sad feeling. You see ordinary people live their daily lives, they by now just ignore the problem with the east, to them it's more of an inconvenience of waiting in lines at checkpoints, paying bribes to get them or their goods through, they dont care about politics of all that, and that's saddening : they did have lives in Yanukovich times, they had future, they were buyin cars, flats, they were going on vacations, had relatively good jobs so they could afford to go to Europe, Turkey, Thailand, etc : it DID NOT MATTER whether they had vis or visa-free travel : system DID WORK, and people LIVED. Now it's not there anymore. And they dont trust new government : saying it's more corrupt than before, but then also this one has blood of their own citizens on their hands. And guess what - there is no Maidan. I really wonder why..... and I think we all know why.
---